Talking about adoption, birthparents, abandonment, race, and China with my kids. That's not all we talk about -- but reading this blog, you'll think it's all we do!!!!!
LOL. Well, she certainly was wrong about her adoptlings not having parents. Good Lord...
Nothing about....wanting to have more children in her family to love....I just hear "Be grateful, Little Ones. I am privileged and saved YOU! Look at me!"
I'm not hearing what you guys are hearing... She never said, I SAVE children. She gave some good advise to someone who asked about international adoption and then said, I have been blessed with good fortune and I wanted to share it. How on Earth does anyone know if her motive was not ALSO to "have more children in her family to love"? Linda-Her second child was 3 years old, when she adopted her, and her mother died while giving child birth, and her birth father had admitted to NEVER EVER seeing her...EVER. How does that constitute him as anything but a sperm donor? At best he is a biological father, but I would steer clear of calling him a "parent" to the child if he had an opportunity to have some kind of relationship with Mercy for 3 years and failed to do so...not even so much as a visit, up until Madonna asked to adopt her. It's very possible he wanted money from Madonna if she was going to adopt this child whom he had never before set eyes on. I'm so glad my family is not in the lime light, and I don't have to prove my devotion to my children at every corner, and that my every word and action is not criticized. It's tough enough being an adoptive parent of a child trans racially, in my own city...little ole me, and getting the personal questions popping up. I can't even imagine the pressure on an AP who obviously is subjected to ridicule and prejudices such as what I'm seeing unfold here.
So Anonymous @1:04am; does it make you cringe when you hear that not everyone sees adoption as all rainbows and sunshine and oh so wonderful? Guess what, it isn't. Get over yourself, you poor, poor thing you...
I lean toward the perspective Anonymous shared. Madonna never used the word "save" in this interview, though she does say that she was drawn to adoption initially for basically humanitarian reasons. I think a viewer's perspective on adoption is going to color the interpretation of her words, obviously.I know many people don't like the way Madonna went about her adoptions, but she's hardly the first person, celebrity or otherwise, to adopt from a country that didn't have an active inter-country program. The thing I appreciate about Madonna is that she doesn't seem to use her kids to promote her celebrity the way some others do. The family is occasionally caught by paparrazi, and her teenage daughter is now starting to seek the spotlight somewhat, but I never get the sense that Madonna is pushing that. She doesn't give personal details about the kids in interviews, she never slams the fathers of her bio kids in interviews etc. As celebrity parents go, she doesn't bother me.
Madonna went out of her way to of use her wealth and celebrity status to bend Malawi's adoption laws. It was well documented. She is a narcissist and I feel sorry for those children; I don't care how many nannies they have, how rich and famous their Madmomma is and how much "stuff" they will be showered with. It was also documented that she stopped allowing one of those children's father from seeing them, as she promised. Looks that happens in International adoption too, as well as domestic. Not only does she think she is some savior, she has the classic adopter entitlement of someone else's flesh and blood...
Anon #1: How do you answer that question when asked?The usual rule of thumb is "answer as if your child was listening."How would your children feel if you answered as Madonna did?
Anon 1 here:Anon 8:27... ??? Your anger is misguided. You need counseling, big time. Malinda- Personally, I would answer according to the truth for MY family. My husband was interested in adoption, and approached me with the idea. We became a family when she entered our lives, and it's probably among the best decisions I ever made. None of us are perfect. I've heard APs say a lot worse than the general concept of what Madonna said in public, which was basically, "I want to make a difference to a child, and I feel a duty to do so." I doubt her children feel slighted by her saying such a thing. And if they do, then live and learn. It's really not the worst thing Ive heard APs say.In fact, I've heard (read) adult adoptees say things that make me cringe much more than what Madonna said here. But, yeah, it seems to be tabu (in place by the angry adoptees themselves), on the forums and blog responses to bring THAT to anyone's attention.
I really enjoy this blog and the chance to learn about events/trends in the adoption world and to share perspectives with others whose lives are touched by adoption. I have to say, though, that comments like those left by Anon 8:27 really bother me. This is supposed to be a forum for sharing one's perspective and thoughts and perhaps being challenged by the perspectives and thoughts of others. However, when one person decides to launch a personal attack on another person, it serves no purpose whatsoever. People who do this are not educating others, just building walls and coming across as really nasty people.It's fine to have your point of view, but think about how you share it with others. Are you writing something that you would say to someone's face if you were talking to him or her in person? Especially someone whom you don't know well? Learning the art of civil discourse is absolutely required if you are going to change anybody's mind about anything. Anon 8:27, I hope you will take this to heart.
a bunch of meanies following this blog. why are we all hating each other? everyone has their own reasons for adopting and i think adoption is wonderful. i think madonna answered the question fine. she didn't appear to be a 'saver' at all. she said she wanted to share what she had. so what? the anti adoption junk and mean people on this blog are driving me crazy. get over yourselves. and really, let's see what the kids think our the exploited going on by posting details about your kids… and how bad adoption is…when you post you should think about your kids reading your words someday…
Beware.... bitter, mean, angry, need counseling bombs coming!!That is the general consensus, after all, when someone has an opposing viewpoint that adoption is NOT so wonderful for some of us. Some of us stop being so 'nice' when we realized we were duped; mothers and adoptees alike. Sorry to break it to ya but we are out here and here to stay. Some of us gave up living our lives for the comfort of others a long time ago, myself included. Exploiting kids? Who is exploiting their kids? Do you see names of anyone's child here? That being said, I would rather my children know the truth than brainwash them to believe something is so wonderful when it is clearly not, for so many people.
Interesting to come and check in on this thread soon after I received a letter from a little girl I sponsor in India. She lived in an orphanage until age 7, then was sold to a couple in India as a domestic servant, then ran away after she was beaten so badly she sustained lifelong injuries. The local government tried to find her a local adoptive family, but there were no takers, so she finally landed in the children's home where we were able to become her sponsors.What is my point? No one can deny that there are problems in the adoption system and that people have been hurt. We need reforms and ethical checks. We need to listen to those who've been hurt. My issue is that many who rightly speak out against adoption seem to view it in isolation from other child welfare issues. Madonna is being taken to task for wanting to "save" children (although she didn't use that word.) The fact is, there are millions of children in the world who need "saving" in some fashion, like the child I sponsor. Adoption isn't always the answer. But sometimes it can be.
Anon 5:54I don't understand, and I want to. You say, you "would rather (your) children know the truth than brainwash them to believe something is so wonderful when it is clearly not, for so many people".So, by that, suppose for just a minute that there's a happy adoptive family out there, who, by anyone's standards has a healthy, loving relationship with one another. Suppose for **that** family adoption **is** wonderful. Sure, there was loss for the child and possibly for the APs as well. But, accepting that, they are still a happy unit. Are you saying then, that the child(ren) in that family should be told they should not be happy? That they have no right to feel that way? Because, after all, **some** people are not happy with their adoption experience. Some people were exposed to unhealthy family relationships via adoption. Some people ended up bitter as adults. Who's to say they would have had a better experience in a non-adoptive situation? There are many dysfunctional families out there, completely unaffected by adoption whatsoever. And because there are some who feel negatively about their own adoption experience, the happy child has no right to feel differently about her/his adoption experience? Who are you to dictate how all adoption experiences will be? IMO that's the exact thing you are calling out another poster for doing. Your logic does not hold water. "I'm unhappy with the way I was raised. Therefore, everyone is unhappy with the way they were raised"
"Madonna went out of her way to of use her wealth and celebrity status to bend Malawi's adoption laws."This is absolutely true. I don't have the facts in front of me, but I spent hours upon hours looking up the details about Madonna's adoption and how she bent the laws."Who's to say they would have had a better experience in a non-adoptive situation?"Let's say I was 'bitter' because I lost my mother. If I hadn't been adopted, I wouldn't have been 'bitter' about losing her, but I would have been bitter about breaking up with an alternate boyfriend.I'd say that being 'bitter' after losing my mother in this life as opposed to being 'bitter' after a break-up in that alternate life is far more credible.Some issues that cause us to be 'bitter' are merely trivial, as stated above.Losing one's mother is a whole different ballgame, and something that is totally credible as to why someone could be 'bitter' specifically because of their adoption.Yes, before you say it - I get that "everyone" has issues. I get that "everyone" goes through shit.But why should that make pain because of adoption any less valid?Adoptees say they are sad because they lost their mothers, someone else says "Well so what, I broke my leg just this past week and one of my family members died of cancer, life is hard for everyone, you know."Okay, I am sorry you broke your leg and that really sucks, and I cannot imagine the pain it causes to lose someone to cancer, I know what it feels like to lose a family member. But do you see *me* saying "Oh well, you broke your leg, plenty of people get in accidents every day, and they all recover, so it's no big deal. And cancer is a fairly common disease, so you're not the only one who has lost a family member."Of course not, because it's crass and unbelievably insensitive. Anyone who would say such things deserves a punch in the face.But when adoption is brought up, people are quick to say "Well you're not the only one to have suffered xyz."Of course not, but that doesn't make the pain any less valid. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?
@Mei-Ling,Valid points to some degree and certainly valid for you. Except....I didn't see Madonna or anyone else making crass, insensitive remarks.But please note, that expressing the pain of your loss ( or anothers') doesn't nullify those adoptees that are content and happy nor do the two need be mutually exclusive. Its possible to feel a sense of loss while fully appreciating a life made through adoption.Time and again I see adoptees sharing and cloaking themselves in self righteousness when others also share a valid point.Discourse ends when mud slinging begins and to me that affected the whole slant of these comments, from folks on both "sides" of the adoptive issue.No one is saying you can't grieve or that you didn't suffer a tremendous loss or even comparing it to a broken leg ( except for you ) but we are saying there is room for more than one idealogy with regards to adoption.And for some of us, it seems the conversation often gets shut down or stunted by nasty remarks fueled by a handfull who believe all adoption is pure evil.Sign me fellow adoptee who sees a whole lot of self pity and insensitivity from all sides.
@ anonymous 7:36"Who are you to dictate how all adoption experiences will be?"Exactly. You were writing that to yourself as well, correct? You don't like any negative comments about adoption, so you negate someone's experience, because yours is (or so you think) so wonderful. Good for you. You procured an infant from his/ her mother and got to be the happy dappy family, thanks to the loss of someone else. Horray!!! Good for you!!! So happy for ya...and I feel utter pain and sorrow for those who lost while you gained. Do you, or are you only thinking of yourself? If you are an adopter, which I highly suspect you are, your gain was another families loss. That FACT is always lacking in any 'logic' I read from ap's. Those families who lost a family member don't have much positive to say about adoption either. I am so sick of the self righteous, self entitlement of so many of ap's and moreoever, who is the 'happy' adoptee you keep referencing? Your adopted child? Do you read their mind? Do you know their every thought? My own mother was hardly the best mother in the world and I did not come from the best, most supportive family, but there is no way I would ever sit here and say I wish I had been given away and raised by strangers because they had 'flaws'. Who the hell doesn't? We are all flawed and imperfect, even those oh so 'perfect' ap's. A child losing his mother and a mother losing her child is horrific and tragic. It is not natural. Nothing about it is. If it is so wonderful, offer up your own flesh and blood and come back here and talk about how 'wonderful' it all is.
"Time and again I see adoptees sharing and cloaking themselves in self righteousness when others also share a valid point."You know, when I hear about someone talking about how they lost a family member to cancer, or how someone just recently divorced or that someone lost a sibling in a tragic accident, everyone says what they are supposed to say: "I am so sorry this happened to you."No one says "Well look, cancer kills a lot of people every day" or "Divorce rates are 50/50 now" or "Accidents happen all the time, at least you got to grew up together."But when an adoptee expresses pain at something that was the EXACT consequence of adoption having to be put in place, they are told "Well everyone has issues."Everyone has issues. We are all aware of everyone having issues. That still doesn't take away the pain of adoption-specific issues, and I fail to see how saying "Everyone has issues, you are not a special snowflake" is supposed to comfort someone.
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