tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post5800656970093310509..comments2024-02-27T00:41:15.985-06:00Comments on AdoptionTalk: Ten Commandments of Tellingmalindahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06233439015219192874noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-16372635212575146672012-03-30T11:50:01.153-05:002012-03-30T11:50:01.153-05:00As the spouse of someone who discovered only at ag...As the spouse of someone who discovered only at age 42 that he'd been adopted as an infant, I am so glad to read this post.Mary A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03147422333144123519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-53224176305392219742011-10-13T13:47:11.169-05:002011-10-13T13:47:11.169-05:00I'm late the party... sigh...
Adult adoptee c...I'm late the party... sigh...<br /><br />Adult adoptee chiming in because I don't see others addressing the point about conversation initiation. All adoptees are different, but I do have an opinion that might help others.<br /><br />I personally was thinking about my adoption all the time when I was a kid. I just never talked about it. I talked about everything else, but I didn't want to upset my mom. And I didn't know how to start the conversation. Had my mother brought it up, I would have LOVED to talk about it. I think things might have been a little bit easier for me, knowing it was OK to talk about. I just figured because she never brought it up we weren't supposed to talk about it.<br /><br />I wasn't given my whole story by age 12. I had to find it on my own at 21. And let me tell you, I would have much rather had my parents give me that information by the time I was 12. I assumed my first mother was a crack whore and my father abandoned her. This couldn't have been more wrong.<br /><br />I agree 100% as an adult adoptee with the list. It's good advice. Granted, I'm sure there are adoptees out there who feel it's crap, but that's just the nature of being part of a larger group.<br /><br />Again, sorry I'm so late to the party but it bothered me that nobody really addressed that point so I figured I would so that others who are late on this will maybe see this. :-)Jennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07905673873066445519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-79980534446594302252011-02-15T23:38:49.556-06:002011-02-15T23:38:49.556-06:00Voted for this one as Top Post!Voted for this one as Top Post!No Bamboozle https://www.blogger.com/profile/07931712484017829352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-48958862317803141682009-05-08T13:51:00.000-05:002009-05-08T13:51:00.000-05:00Lisa,
Thank you for sharing that story about your...Lisa,<br /><br />Thank you for sharing that story about your daughter.<br /><br />Sydney reminds me so much of how I was at her age that it's scary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-46011285274171646762009-05-07T19:25:00.000-05:002009-05-07T19:25:00.000-05:00Sang-Shil:
I noticed on your blog that you said y...Sang-Shil:<br /><br />I noticed on your blog that you said you wanted to basically reserve the right to grow. I respect that. I read this blog (and now some others) not solely to rant my opinion, but read and evolve, too.<br /><br />I was not being sarcastic, I was intrigued by this entry. Much appreciated! For those who may be reading this post it's - http://notsocalm.wordpress.com/2009/04/10/one-thing-adoptive-parents-hate-doing/ <br /> <br />I am just quoting part of the entry: "What I find most frustrating is that many white adoptive parents take these calls to move to a diverse environment as a mandate for more Chinese school, or Korean culture camps, or Indian restaurants, or anything else that will allow the parents to retreat to their safe enclaves of whiteness at the end of the day. Sending your kids to school day in and day out with children that look like them is very different from sending them to culture school once a week to make paper lanterns. Living in a neighborhood with families and adults of your child’s race is different from seeing people of color in service positions at the local Mickey D’s. In short, being constantly immersed in a diverse environment is entirely different from merely visiting one whenever it happens to be convenient."<br /><br />That is exactly what I get from readings of adoptees, and it was put into words much better than I could ever express. Parenting requires us to go out of our comfort zone in many ways. My 8 year old is much more interested in Chinese people (let’s say Asian people), culture, language than she is her birth parents. I worried that maybe there was something I was doing to keep her from expressing her feelings toward her birth family, so I recently consulted an adoption psychologist. She said that my daughter was not in the grief stage yet, and may not get there until adolescence or young adulthood. Her advice was to keep doors open, but don’t force things. I know all children are different, but it’s obvious that overdoing discussion on any topic can turn a child off.<br /><br />My own rants of avoiding "persistent unsolicited discussion" really pertain a lot to my 8 year old daughter's personality. If I push her too hard with discussion on ANY topic, she shuts down. Let me give you an example of what happened today. We were riding in the car. She said in a delightful, giggly tone "Speech! Speech!" I said "Sydney, your audience is listening" (continuing the playful banter). Sydney said "When I was born into the old house before we moved...." and proceeded to give her speech. <br /><br />What was the first thing, I, the goof said? "Honey, first of all, you were born in China and brought HOME to the other house." (You know, in response to my readings that many adoptees’ own birth was never discussed with them). Then I playfully addressed her speech. She shut down. I lost her. She was no longer listening. The she said "MOM, I KNOW I was born in China. What I am saying is...oh, just forget it." She wouldn't tell me what it was.<br /><br />As you rightfully pointed out, we parents are VERY pushy on our values, opinions, advice. I do guide, but I try to let my daughter in the front seat on all life issues. She is in on decision making, and even if we have to override (no, we can’t have a rabbit, we have too many critters already). I listen to and respect her position.<br /><br />So, my whole and sole point is that I think we parents need to be sure our kids are with us in any discussion – not just initiate conversation to meet “our” needs. WE ARE IN THEIR FACE TOO MUCH ABOUT EVERYTHING - not just adoption/cultural immersion. <br /><br />Thanks for listening! <br /><br />PS I am not as into the internet talking as well: Caps for me are not yelling, but emphasizing my point.Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-45522092566566239692009-05-07T08:48:00.000-05:002009-05-07T08:48:00.000-05:00Hi Lisa Again -- **waves**
That was EXACTLY my po...Hi Lisa Again -- **waves**<br /><br />That was EXACTLY my point... that parents (and people in general) *do* teach values, instruct, tell their feelings, tell people what to do, etc. But especially parents, because that is a huge part of what raising a child is all about. Parents *should be* doing *exactly* these things for their children. :-)<br /><br />What I wanted to point out was that some adoptive parents do this extensively for "present" family members, especially ones that are "known" but may not be in a child's life every day (i.e. grandparents or cousins), but not for family members that haven't been met or can't be remembered, such as first parents. If we tell our children to, say, remember their grandparents or their cousins on their birthdays or on grandparents day, even though the child doesn't actually see them on those days, it sends the message that we think it important to remember them, think of them, and include them in our emotional/mental lives. <br /><br />I'm simply asking, why wouldn't we do the same for first parents, say on birthdays or Mothers' Day? Why does language around first parents suddenly involve the words "presumptuous" and "imposing"... but not for other [adoptive] family members? Is it because we don't really feel comfortable thinking of first families as "family members" in the first place? Or is it something else that I'm not thinking of?<br /><br />As for my blog: First of all, I'm not sure how my blog is relevant to the above discussion about parenting, because my sharing my thoughts (and yes, occasionally even giving advice or "telling people what to do") has none of the power dynamics (or responsibilities of) a parent-child relationship. I am not "raising" anybody, and have absolutely no responsibility to teach or educate or do anything else.<br /><br />But since you brought it up: While I like to think of my writing there as mostly "telling my feelings" rather than "teaching" or "telling people what to do," I admit that there are moments when I forget myself and give advice, sometimes rather pointedly. (Though not nearly as often as it would seem some adoptive parents would like). The post that you called "great" (Were you being sarcastic? Please clarify.) was one of those rare times, because it is something that I feel VERY, very strongly about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-34521760736584592892009-05-06T22:20:00.000-05:002009-05-06T22:20:00.000-05:00PS Sang-Shil - great post on your blog - "One Thin...PS Sang-Shil - great post on your blog - "One Thing Adoptive Parents Hate Doing"Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-63705242768849063272009-05-06T21:54:00.000-05:002009-05-06T21:54:00.000-05:00Sang-Shil - I'll assume your comment is directed a...Sang-Shil - I'll assume your comment is directed at my original post here. I see what you are getting at, but I am coming from a different angle.<br /><br />Concerning -<br /> " don't hesitate to "teach," "guide," or "impart" values/feelings towards other people (i.e. other [adoptive] family members, figures of authority, etc.)"<br /><br />Isn't that what parents do - teach their values? Tell their feelings? Isn't that what PEOPLE do? Isn't that what you do on your blog?<br /><br />My whole point is - if you are open to discussion with your child, then WHY should AP's look for every opportunity to discuss adoption? The opportunities are everywhere. If you are a conversational family it will come up naturally and not in a "forced" fashion.Lisa Againnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-31350089178833616572009-05-06T15:38:00.000-05:002009-05-06T15:38:00.000-05:00And the dead horse continues to be beaten...
I'll...And the dead horse continues to be beaten...<br /><br />I'll just say that I find it very interesting that some adoptive parents suddenly become very concerned about "imposing their own thoughts" and "pushing" certain priorities and values on their children when it comes to feelings about first (birth) parents, but don't hesitate to "teach," "guide," or "impart" values/feelings towards other people (i.e. other [adoptive] family members, figures of authority, etc.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-92084197120905725582009-05-05T17:12:00.000-05:002009-05-05T17:12:00.000-05:00I know that I HAVE to tell her, I just don't WANT ...I know that I HAVE to tell her, I just don't WANT to. ever. I understand that she has to hear it from me. I want her to know that she can trust me and I have to be honest with her in order for that to happen. When we first came home with her I knew it was important to start telling her the story of how she came to be with us. It was hard at first, but as I heard myself say it out loud it became more comfortable. I'm sure the abandonment story will be similar and I suppose there's no time like the present to start setting up the framework for that.Shari Uhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01069658983242566841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-59420178222950063042009-05-05T09:43:00.000-05:002009-05-05T09:43:00.000-05:00Excellent post!
As a parent of a 3.5 year old wh...Excellent post! <br />As a parent of a 3.5 year old who is just starting to voice some questions about adoption, China and her origins in the world, this is extremely helpful.<br />I whole-heartedly agree that we need to disclose all of the information by age 12, including the abandonment. I also believe that initiating conversations with books, movies, life experience, etc. is important. And...I would love to hear an adoptee's point of view on the 'conversation initiation' issue. <br />Malinda - when your girls were around age 3 / 4, what did you utilize to start adoption discussions? <br />Thanks!<br />M.Mahmeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18158674770578555009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-31408292156505230882009-05-05T09:25:00.000-05:002009-05-05T09:25:00.000-05:00Shari,
I sympathize with the desire to protect yo...Shari,<br /><br />I sympathize with the desire to protect your child from hurtful information, but I say you HAVE to tell. She WILL hear about it from others -- too many people know about the situation in China. It won't take someone hearing it from you and repeating it to her. SOMEONE will say to her, "They hate girls in China. They just leave them by the side of the road to die. You're lucky someone found you and took you to an orphanage." I can almost guarantee it -- people said it in front of Zoe from the time she was 3, and when we went to China when she was 4.5 to adopt baby sister, the guide threw around "abandonment" like it was the word of the day! IT WILL HAPPEN! <br /><br />So you have a choice -- do you want her to hear it from someone else, or from you, who will be there to give her emotional support and to express it as positively as possible?<br /><br />Zoe and Maya both know about the one child policy and the social preference for boys. They know that they were put in a place where they would be found quickly, that they were wrapped warmly, and that these things were done as their birth parents did their best to take care of them. They know that their abandonment was caused by big grown-up problems in China, and that they were goo-goo ga-ga babies who couldn't do anything wrong. In fact, they were so tiny their birth parents didn't know them as people -- their birth parents couldn't parent ANY girl baby. <br /><br />Yes, it hurts. But they need to know.malindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233439015219192874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-57616405567518818832009-05-05T07:45:00.000-05:002009-05-05T07:45:00.000-05:00Sounds like some good advice. I can hang with eve...Sounds like some good advice. I can hang with everything except the "all information by age 12". That one hurts a little bit. We have kept our daughter's abandonment information to ourselves, I don't want her to hear from another child in the 3rd grade that "your mom told my mom that you were dumped alongside the street when someone picked you up and took you to the orphanage" or something like that. We don't want other people to pity her or to discuss her personal details. We have just kept it to ourselves. How in the world do you explain to a child that they were abandoned and how they were abandoned without it completely destroying their sense of worth? I would imagine this is a little more of a problem with the children adopted from China as most of them were abandoned and typically not in a pretty way. Truthfully, I had planned to keep that one piece of information secret and had even planned to remove that document from my house so my daughter would never find it. I hate the idea of her ever having to know about this. Can anyone help me wrap my mind around this?Shari Uhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01069658983242566841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-316191265933534655.post-81054907310150112002009-05-03T22:02:00.000-05:002009-05-03T22:02:00.000-05:00Malinda, Do you know the credentials of the author...Malinda, Do you know the credentials of the authors? It sounds like they have quite a bit of experience. I especially like the "don't join in on the anger" bit. As a parent, we want to identify with our children's feelings, and it would be easy to do so, especially when they are hurting. That piece of advice is a good reminder.<br /><br />I still worry about IX on some level (initiate conversation). We had a raging debate on this some time ago on this blog. <br /><br />I think it's great to have / bring up opportunities to discuss our children's adoption, but I worry that PERSISTENT UNSOLICITED DISCUSSION will give the child the impression that adoption is "all" we define her by. Or even be so saturated she tires of our discussions. Our daughter is many other things besides "our child by adoption." <br /><br />I find it a bit presumptuous for us to think we can impose our personal opinions on Mother's day and birthdays. This sounds like our OWN agenda. What if our child doesn't want "us" to think about the birth parents on her birthday? And we say we do? Are we imposing our own thoughts on her? <br /><br />I know I am beating a dead horse after our previous discussion, and there are worries that adoptees may feel unable to discuss by their parents' nonverbal and verbal signals. And, some parents may read their children better than others, this is where it becomes complex.<br /><br />However, if you leave that door open and tell your child verbally you WILL discuss any topic anytime - opportunities to discuss adoption will happen time and time again. Why LOOK for opportunities? They are all around you. Just the other day we saw a family I know, and the girl happens to be adopted from Romania. My daughter had lots of questions, we had an interesting (and I hope informative) discussion as a result.Lisanoreply@blogger.com